This episode is packed with insights, practical advice, and forward-looking discussions that cater to anyone passionate about pushing the boundaries of 3D art and game development.
Welcome to the second episode of CGCast. Today is the 10th
of September.
My name is Olivier Archer and today I have Franklin and
Mark with me.
Thanks to all those who sent comments by email in the
forums.
With your help, this podcast will be much better.
So today we'll be talking about the new CGTalk Contest,
the new 3D Total Magazine, which is called 3D Creative,
and we'll have a segment about real-time next-generation
graphics.
I have a fun show ahead of us.
But first, we'd like to give you some background about the
crew.
Me, I'm Olivier Archer.
I've been doing 3D for about three years and a few months.
I found out about it from my uncle and I've always been
interested in games.
So I did my research and started teaching myself with the
help of the internet.
And you're probably wondering why I'm doing this podcast.
Well, all the girls like guys with podcasts.
No, I'm kidding.
The reason I'm doing this podcast is to help the community
and try to build contacts because this industry is all
about contacts.
Our next, Mark will introduce.
Well, hey, Algo.
Well, my name is Mark Pintar and I live in Canada.
Some little background info on me.
Well, I've started 3D about two or so years ago, but it was
just like for about a week or so in school.
And then a year later, I took the same class again.
And from that class, I got really interested in 3D.
So I started doing it over the summer,
throughout the school year.
So now I've been doing it for about a year.
And that's how I got introduced with the 3D industry.
I've always also been interested in games.
So that's about it.
Franklin?
Yeah, my name is Franklin D'Souza.
And I actually got onto 3D
from watching making of segments from movies.
I moved on from there to programs like Nando,
freeware programs that everyone is using then.
I finally hit 3D Studio Max, and now I'm a texture artist
for a mod.
That's about it.
All right, that's pretty good.
So, well, I'm from Switzerland, and my companions are from
Canada, if anybody's wondering.
All right.
The first topic today is 3D Totals Magazines, called 3D
Creative.
I think it'd be very interesting because I like magazines.
But I think this is a digital magazine, so that kind of
takes out the fun of it.
Because I like having a magazine.
I can go down to the lake and read it in the sunshine, get
some fresh air.
Or take it with me when I have to go out somewhere I don't
want to.
But if it's pure digital, I could put it on my pocket PC,
but it's not the same.
I'd rather have a nice paper thing to carry around.
But it's still a good idea nonetheless.
They have a lot of tutorials.
They have the Joan of Arc tutorial for every major
application.
They have it for Maya, for XSI.
and etc so if you're into that it would be pretty cool it's
pretty cheap too it's four dollars but
it's digital if they had it on newsstands i would
definitely buy it every month i buy pc gamer from
the united states which is imported uh like five dollars a
month and it's pretty it's pretty good
price but i've seen other 3d magazines like 3d world that
sell for like 17 dollars there's no
way I could afford that so 3D Total could find a publishing
deal and publish it for a good price
around five to seven dollars I would definitely buy that
every month I'm pretty sure other people
would too yeah I would buy it maybe except for it's a lot
of money yeah dude I can't afford that
yeah let's do that I'd buy money on food and accommodations
and stuff and then whatever
whether I'll definitely try to check this one out because
of the Joan of Ark tutorial
so it looks pretty cool
and I have another tutorial
they also have
they also have like
interviews and
articles and stuff
so it's a cool magazine
but I'd rather have it
in paper
what would you like
with the articles
like
does like the
ballistic publishing
ones have articles
or is it just
basically a show of it
with a basic
clip it
of what that picture is
are you sure about it
well those are different
those are books
so it's not
it's like apples and oranges
but the magazine
would be like monthly
and much cheaper than a book.
Oh, okay.
So I kind of get it.
What would you guys like to see in a magazine?
Just news and interviews with the leading industry
individuals.
I would like to.
Yeah, that's good enough.
Yeah, I think they should introduce segments in the
magazines
where they have tips and tricks from the pros.
Because that's exactly what every artist out there wants to
see.
You want to see what kind of techniques industry
professionals use.
That's cool.
Yeah, I was looking at a friend's work and he made a
helicopter
and it was such a cool way that I wanted to know how he
made it.
And he kind of explained it a bit and that's been really
helpful.
Like if I could find a magazine that's full of that, it'd
be perfect.
What way did your friend model the helicopter?
That'd be kind of a good thing that we can learn from.
He did it, he made it piece by piece.
He modeled each panel of the helicopter by part.
He didn't make it one single mesh.
He just made it basically with planes?
Yeah, exactly.
He just made it part by part instead of one single mesh,
and it came out really cool.
And doing that by one single mesh would have been harder to
get that effect.
And it depends of how your modeling style is, I guess.
Yeah, I guess. But I think that part-by-part is cool. I'm a
big fan of part-by-part.
But then if you also have to animate it, it makes it that
just much harder to do.
Unless there's the doors opening and everything.
No, I think part-by-part would be much easier. That's why I
like it.
Because animating one single mesh is hard. With part-by-
part, I can just wire everything with sliders.
Well, you always could just detach it.
Yeah.
or something.
I don't know anything about animating.
So I guess you could always attach the mesh
and it'd be basically the same thing
if you like modeling it as a whole.
Yeah, that's cool.
Next subject of the day is CG Talk's new contest.
It's called, the theme is spectacular.
It's a pretty cool theme.
I like it.
It's very open.
I didn't like the previous theme,
Master and Servant,
because it wasn't very open.
It was very restrictive.
we have some amazing prizes if you come in the grand prize
which means that you're the best in
the world well not in the world but i don't know you're
pretty damn good you get a nice computer
pretty cool graphics card and software soft image xsi 5.0
advance the other prizes are pretty good
too like if you come first runner up you get max 8 and
combustion plus pure xsi pure rendering card
there's the
Luzern ring card
yeah
I'm not sure about that
I'd rather have V-Ray
but I never
used it so
you never know
it could be sweet
yeah
the two years
kicking ass
um
yeah
V-Ray and Mental Ray
I'd rather
I like V-Ray
more than Mental Ray
but it probably won't
beat up
like
mainstream stuff
which Pixar
and all of them
use though
that's not really
mainstream
those are
high end
well that's what I meant
not mainstream
um
Renderman
yeah
the writer
their work first.
Alright.
Anyways,
the 2D guys
have pretty cool prizes too.
If you come grand prize
for the 2D section,
you get
a nice computer too
and a graphics card
plus Painter 9.
And if you first run it up,
you get Cinema 4D.
I'm not really sure
how that's helpful
if you're into 2D.
Well, you never know.
You could sell it
or something maybe.
I guess.
Well, a lot of 2D artists
work as texture.
That's true,
but they wouldn't actually need it.
They'd probably just need a texture sheet.
I don't know until that much stuff.
Didn't tell painting.
Painting is not really close to texturing, is it?
Yeah, it's true.
Yeah, they have a lot of similar things.
You're going to use some of the similar techniques.
Like what?
Well, like overlaying, correct use of layer management.
There's a lot of different things.
A lot of head charges use colors like any artist would need
.
Yeah, but that's more editing.
anyway it's not editing how is it editing that would be
like deleting with the eraser brush or
something exactly you need to know what colors complement
each other what colors contrast each
other how they work together basically yeah all those crazy
colors all right another cool thing
about the contest their community prizes which if you just
talk a lot will help people in the
forums and be really helpful
and be part of the community
you get some free stuff
like you can win
Vue 5 Infinite
and Modo 2.0
2.1
Modo 2.1
and Coral Painter 9
so they're so sweet we have a demo at
our school and I just play around
with the graphics tab we had
there it was pretty sweet of that
class they're just an amazing program
and anybody who likes
photoshop should like look into this at least which which
program painter painter yeah painter
is more for a painting yeah photoshop is not really geared
for painting but it's still worth
so you know be cool a character that was like a paint like
a painting i want to do that although
it's already been done what a painting character so like
the texture is like a paint okay like oils
are acrylic.
Anyways.
That's going to be it.
That's edited. Oh, no, sorry.
It's not. Anyways, I just
saved it. Dude, I keep trying to say something.
What? Say something.
Alright. There's like
30 seconds edited. Anyways, are you guys
entering the contest?
Okay, I'm going to enter the contest. I've already
submitted my concept
sketch and one WIP
so far. Are you guys
entering? Whip. Work in progress.
yeah
uh
no
too much school
Frankie boy
I'd agree actually
a contest like this
requires a lot
from you
because it's
it's
a CG talk contest
you start with
they require a lot
of the artists
but it's like
three months long
it's until December
yeah but
that's the point
they expect
spectacular energy
yeah exactly
right now
I'll just stick with
three total modeling
speed modeling challenges
alright
well they take me
30 minutes, which I can handle
every once in a while.
Because the contest challenges all parts
of your talents. You need to have good
lighting, good design,
form an environment.
It's really a lot to deal with.
Yeah, that's what I'm doing. I've been
making some animations lately and
I'm taking a break from that so I can
work on my texturing. Don't you think
I should work on my texturing, Franklin?
Yeah, I think
you should develop your texturing skills
because it's quite an important skill to have
during environment designing.
Yeah, you have to have it.
Get away with no lighting,
and it would look good, like basic lighting.
Yeah, exactly.
Plus, you have a good shader.
That's really what brings out your geometry.
It's what makes it real.
Yeah, you can make a simple model with a crazy-ass shader
and some nice lighting, and it will look pretty good.
So texturing, my opinion, one of the most important things
you will ever need to do in 3D.
So it should never be overlooked.
Yeah, you shouldn't just leave it to a plain photo or
something you took while you were camping or something.
You just slap on a grunge metal texture and then put in
some specular highlights or something like that.
You should work on your textures a lot.
Oh yeah, with that, you just need to observe the real world
,
like rust edges and where it's worn and all that stuff.
You need to be really observant, take down notes about,
well, not really notes, but mental notes about how things
look in reality.
Also, you need to have a sketchbook.
Another interesting thing is that you have to take a break
from 3D every now and then
because eventually you start forgetting what real life
looks like.
That ever happen to you, guy?
Oh yeah.
You're looking at something.
You say it doesn't look real, but when you look, it does
look real.
Oh, yeah, well.
I actually haven't faced that.
That's never happened to you?
No.
It happens when you're working on photorealistic stuff you
're always looking at.
It's never perfect, but you might.
The thing is, if you're working on something photorealistic
,
you're always working with resources that are indicative of
real-life pictures and scenes.
So how can you ever forget what something real looks like?
No, because you're looking at something that looks close to
reality.
If you're reaching close and then you just, you could have
passed.
You could have done the perfect render, but to you, it
doesn't look real.
You're just looking for that unachievable perfection.
In real life, nothing is perfect.
That goes deeper.
Humans have always thrived for that.
The thing is with that, it will look realistic to another
person.
You're just used to it and you see it.
You can see all the little tiny flaws in every single part
of your image.
Sometimes realism doesn't mean making it perfect.
It means using imperfections in the correct manner.
It means weathering metals.
It means making wrinkles on your characters.
Yeah, I wasn't talking about that.
But the image would have to look perfect in a different
sense.
The caustic doesn't look properly.
But in real life, Caustic would look properly.
That's how it really looks.
That's why you always need a second opinion in all your
work.
Which is why I think that the community prizes are really
awesome
because they're rewarding the community for giving their
feedback on artists.
Yeah, that's what you need the most.
Yeah, because without feedback, you could just be running
in circles.
You could do the right thing and not even notice it.
That's really what artists benefit from.
I mean, a lot of us had come from forums and communities
that really developed our skills.
Yeah, I know when I do stuff like that, I'll be like, this
doesn't look realistic.
But I'll show it to a few people and they're like, that
looks pretty realistic.
And that makes me feel like something.
And then they'll give me something to change.
And then I'll be like, oh, this even looks more realistic
to me.
And then I'll show them doing it again.
And they'll be like, wow, that looks so much better.
And that's just a small rundown of everything.
All right.
Anyway, so if you're not entering the contest,
you can still check out the web forums
because the work in progress forums of the contest
because you have to post milestones of every level.
So you can see how a lot of work evolves.
And I think it's perfect for learning.
You can see work from concept sketch to final image
and the amount of educational material in there is amazing.
Make sure to post feedback on everyone's work.
If you ever see a small problem in any render that you see
over there,
just don't hesitate to tell them what you think.
Yeah, I've been delisting a lot.
I've been helping.
People have been helping me.
I've been helping people, giving them ideas.
Exactly.
Yeah, I haven't had time to look at them.
I've seen a few of them,
and the 3D hasn't really started up in my opinion.
There hasn't been a really good picture yet so far,
but the 2D is really kicking off, and it looks pretty nice.
I've seen one really cool 3D picture by Nebzeal.
He made a base mesh and then he Z-brushed it.
Oh, is that like the 2D guy?
Yeah, he does a lot of cool 2D, but he's entering in 3D
section now.
I think I know what you're talking about.
It's pretty cool.
Like the alien dude with the bridge?
Yeah, that one.
It's pretty cool.
He started making the model and he Z-brushed it and it
looks so cool.
That's actually what a lot of artists are doing nowadays.
They make a base model that's just a few polygons
and then they import it into ZBrush.
Yeah, that's probably the way it should be for the high-res
because just the workflow in ZBrush is just that much
better.
And even if I'll just go up,
I think Modo 201 is implementing some of those other things
.
So we'll see how it all goes.
And this is the new sculpting age instead of scanning, I
guess.
Yeah, but sometimes ZBrush is not perfect for everything.
Like if I want to make a spaceship, I'm definitely not
going to be using ZBrush.
It's more organic, of course.
Yeah, but even like if I want to make a smooth woman's face
, a smooth body,
it's a bit hard in ZBrush.
Just be quicker to do it in 3D Max.
I'm not really too fond of the Z-spheres.
I'd rather make a base mesh and then edit it in ZBrush.
But anyways, we have another topic to talk about before we
run out of time.
We've recorded a lot.
Our next topic is the next generation real-time graphics.
We've seen that a lot of games are getting pretty damn
close to realistic, but not exactly there.
So what do you guys think will be the special thing about
the next-gen graphics?
Right now, this generation normal maps have been pretty
cool.
What do you guys think?
I don't know.
Normal maps are good, but somebody will develop something
better,
better than normal maps, just like the normal mappers
figured out
better than bump mapping and everything.
But what I think they should do is actually have a map for
the glossiness
instead of having everything on the character.
if they used one texture sheet
having the same amount of gloss
and that'll add to the realism too.
Doesn't Doom 3 have that
but it makes it look kind of plastic?
It has the gloss maps.
Yeah, Doom has it.
Doom 3 has it.
Well, most other engines don't.
That's the thing.
Well, I think most engines don't have it.
Well, see, that's why
I don't know anything about games.
I'm pretty sure most of them don't.
I think Source does, right?
No, it doesn't.
It says it on Lux.
No, it has specular maps.
Yeah, but specular and gloss is totally different
and they complement each other and you need both.
Yeah, that's true.
That's why a lot of CG talk artists are being complained
that most of the engines they work on don't have gloss maps
.
Well, I just said that most engines don't have.
You just said they do.
Yeah, quite a lot of them do,
but the freeware ones out there don't.
The freeware.
So do you think there's going to be a future
for low poly modelers
after a few generations.
So right now,
most of the models
are made extremely high resolution
to make the normal maps
and then they're optimized
down to low poly models
for this generation.
The next generation,
you just think will be pure polygons
and will there be any more room
for the low polygon modelers?
Well, for the modelers,
they'll just go higher res a bit more.
There's still going to be lower poly,
so they'll just have to know how,
they'll just be able
to put a lot more detail in it.
Yeah, but with your expertise in the low poly.
With 64-bit coming out now,
computers can just pump out lots more.
Here's the thing.
And most people won't always get the 64-bit processor
in Windows right away.
But we'll still need to buy games for the 32-bit stuff.
Yeah, but I'm talking about all the folks on 64.
I'm talking about a few generations ahead of us,
like, say, in 10 years.
Well, in 10 years, there's going to be, like, 128-bit.
And then those things will be crazy.
And then everything's going to be too realistic that people
are going to be like,
I don't need a real life because this is already real life
in this vision.
You think we can get real-time global illumination in 10
years?
With real-time caustics, real-time SSS, subsurface
scattering real-time?
I think we can get all that in another three years,
actually.
Because they're already working in subsurface scattering.
They're already experimenting the HDRI.
I'm pretty sure that in the following four years or so,
We should at least have a few of those things down in real-
time rendering.
Well, I actually saw a post on a forum that some guy made
about a fake SSS shader that's real-time.
Like, they're rendering this one second right now,
and it looks really nice.
So, yeah, so really shortly.
And, well, for the global illumination,
they'll probably do, like, ambient occlusion patches or
something before that.
What about here?
That's going to be pretty hard to do in real time.
Well, maybe they'll just go lower poly.
Yeah, with paint.
The way they do it now, basically.
Well, they have developed a fur shader
that kind of distorts the diffuse texture to look like hair
.
Like in black and white, too.
Yeah.
Yeah, it's cool, but like, say,
if you're going to have a girl with long, flowing hair
that reacts with the environment.
Well, it doesn't have to react with the environment.
Well, that would be cool.
That would be more realistic.
Yeah, that's true.
Like, supposing if it was the dead model
and it was a rag doll
and you wanted to push her around.
Or if the character goes in water.
Yeah, exactly.
Well, if in another 10 years
our polygon limits are going to rise,
I don't see why we can't have
a few more polygons in the hair.
Do you think...
I don't think in a few years,
I don't think we'll have poly limits.
I think the sky will be the limit.
and then the sky is going to be like two polygons because
all you need is an image
no the sky will be just pure atmospherics it will be the
clouds will be like um fossils
just pure atmospherics no more of that no more hacks to get
effects everything will be just there
well i wouldn't say that because portable um consoles and
stuff will still be around and
they still need optimized graphics.
Yeah, but look at the PSP,
which is just one generation away.
It has to think of the output of it.
So it's still pretty low res,
but it looks better because it's on such a small screen.
Yeah, PSP still uses 5x12 textures.
Yeah, probably for even the bigger things.
I bet smaller things like the buildings uses 256.
Exactly.
But still, the technology is just going to get better and
better,
and it's going to be able to crank up more polys in the
future.
So I think the handhelds right now are just going to be
one or two generations behind the consoles.
Yeah, I don't know.
Graphics are getting too far too fast.
Developers just need to learn how to actually make a good
game
that stands out and have some way more artistic merit
instead of just going right for the realism
and the new thing like HDR lighting,
which is now in the Source engine.
It's not a stuff like that.
That is almost up.
It's implementing it when it releases Lost Coast.
Yeah, all right.
Do you guys think we'll ever achieve photorealism in games?
Like you could show it to somebody
and they'll think it's a photo?
Or better yet, show them actual in-game footage
and make them think it's a real video
that's actually happening.
you think we'll ever be able to reach that quality because
in movies we still can't reach that
franklin you go um i actually think that's really really
far away from us right now because
um if we can't do it in movies where people are actually
animating by hand and using motion
capture i don't know i don't see how we can do that with
scripted events because you have to do
rotations and stuff and code and tell the characters where
to go and stuff i really don't
see how but i think i think games have an advantage where
they have the ai the artificial intelligence
that controls everything it controls everything so long to
program not really because there's
been leaps and bounds in artificial intelligence look at
the civs yeah well back in the way that
people will be able to achieve for realism in games which
will actually be a game that people
we want to play is more efficient making of the games
because like right now with the next
generation consoles it's going to be expensive and really
time consuming to make a game because
they're like what everything can handle the environments
need to be so much richer
so much more detail has to put in so that will cost so much
more to do and many many more man
hours now what you don't you think don't you think because
of that um studios will hire more artists
And they'll also have to sell more games, which right now
we don't know.
If they make good, we'll have to see.
This industry is billion dollars.
There's a lot of money in this industry.
So if they hire more artists, more jobs for everybody,
games will look better, everybody's happy.
Unless they do an EA where they make everybody work harder
and take away holidays.
What I think they have to do is like what Will Wright does,
which was he was the creator of the sims he's a very ingen
ious guy i don't even know if that's
the right word but uh he the game spore that's where game
developers need to head to with more
of like like programs like programmers with the games
procedural yeah all the math and everything
to figure out stuff instead of having art people like art
designers and all them people to do stuff
so that's that's tough for artists or like say for alt
realism of course if you look at your arm you
got some hair there if you do it right now where you have
an artist basically put where all the
hair is but what they would need to do is have just a part
of the game engine which will figure
that out and make it individual for each character on like
the texture coordinates or something
that's one of the only ways they will be able to achieve
there's another game of aces there's
another game of aces no there's another game like that
right now hellgate london where it randomizes
the zombies like the zombies have different faces different
shirts and all stuff like that so you're
not shooting the same exact zombie a hundred times like in
doom or half-life or any other first
person shooter we're shooting the same guy over and over
and over again but hellgate london it
randomizes the monsters so it's be more interesting well
things like that can only go so far i mean
sure you won't have the same monster going after you but
they will all pretty much have
more or less the same animation you know i mean otherwise
people have to spend a lot more time
variating animations making random animation i don't think
we're that's why i'm saying that
animation should be controlled by artificial intelligence
which is what spore does um
There's a program, it's really expensive, that does that,
where you give the character a goal and the artificial
intelligence will do it.
It's called Spice Animanium or something.
Yeah, I've actually read about that.
That's way too expensive for me, so I don't know much about
it.
But then that's effectively destroying the animator's role
in James Bond.
You will never need an animator after that.
But if it looks better, then it's worth it.
If it's different, if it's good, it's worth it.
But I'm sure we need animators for non-character stuff.
Like ships and cars and stuff like that.
Oh, that's physics-based, but...
Yeah, that's what they'll do.
They'll have, like, use their law for the engines,
just, like, all that stuff, propelling it,
and then they could probably use a slider,
like a function and stuff,
to control the amount of output on the jets,
which will, in turn, steer the jets.
But then we're moving away from art and we're moving into
physics and realism again.
That's the thing with the gaming industry.
They're always wanting the one up on the other competition.
I want some of those.
That's where it's going wrong.
I want some of those animation tools in 3D Max.
You're just trying to slack off there.
No, if it looks better and takes less work, then I'm all
for it.
Imagine having the computer just simulate a crash,
Making it look good.
And making it...
I want the...
The important thing is the end product.
I don't know.
Then all we'll have is newbies
playing around with the programs
for like a week
and they'll be able to do
spectacular car crashes
with particles everywhere.
That's it.
And they could go into the movie industry
after learning the program for three weeks
and that's not where it should be.
Yeah, but there still has to be...
There's a difference between skills.
It's not the tool.
is how you use the tool remember that um you can give a new
bie 3d max and v-ray and whatever and
he won't he won't make a piece of art from it anyways
anything is art though not anything
i'm gonna draw a picture right now okay just a second wait
for it wait wait wait wait we don't
have time yeah i'm done it's art okay it's not art trust me
i'll send you the picture i'm gonna
send you the picture it's done it's not all right trust me
anything you call art is art
it's any other you know it is right okay there's a
difference between this good art and bad art
yeah but it's still art anyways let's go on to the next oh
wait wait i want to say something
i had something to say about next generation all right talk
yeah um i think the biggest problem
we're having uh between achieving photorealism right now is
the fact that everything about
game development is so disconnected in movies you have an
environment in which the character is in
But in games, you need to animate the character separately
from the environment.
So it's kind of really hard to make them all integrate with
each other,
which is why you see things like people's hands going
through guns
and third-person models and stuff like that.
It doesn't fit in very well.
So I think you need to work on these basic aspects of
gaming development
before you get on to more advanced features such as HDRI
and...
That's a very good point, Franklin.
I think there was a game that was working
where you had your actual character model.
I'm not sure I remember which game it was.
How's your model?
That's the Offset Editor.
I was just checking it out today.
There's a new engine called the Offset Engine.
They're developing a new game on it,
which is a fantasy or a...
Fantasy-based game.
...1st-person shooter or something like that.
Within this, you can actually position your models and maps
and everything within an environment and integrate it all
together.
And it's kind of like, it looks, the interface looks a bit
like XSI and all works together pretty well.
So there's no intersections.
Because in Counter-Strike, it's not really cool when you
can see a guy's gun.
Or when you're at Zolheim's, it glitches and you can see
their shadow being distorted through the wall.
and then you just go, boom, headshot.
Another interesting thing about Offset Editors,
it's built to work in a project or team-oriented
environment.
Like, supposing you want to test out the game code,
you can do that while a map editor fixes up a map
that's already been compiled.
That's cool.
Okay, another thing.
I don't want to say something now.
Okay, say something.
I just want to say something.
It's not even next generation.
This is old generation.
Game developers have moved on to the new consoles too
quickly.
Companies have made them come out too quickly.
So let's say with the Super Nintendo and N64.
2D sprite graphics were really good for the Super Nintendo.
Yeah, they jumped to N64 and PlayStation way too early.
If you compare it, there's way more artistic merit and
stuff
in the 2D games
because in the 3D games they did have
the engines and
processor capabilities
to get it
the way they want so like there's
really low quality textures with
really really really low polygon models
and just does not look
as good as the
2D games did in
Super Nintendo. No but
exactly Super Nintendo was the ending
of that generation if you look further back
Remember Ultima 1 was just black and white and pink?
And there was a stick character.
Everything has to start somewhere.
But the Super Nintendo was the ending of that generation.
It was the ending, but it ended too soon.
Just like how the Xbox and the PS2 are ending too quickly
now.
No, because they still have a lot of life in there.
No, the PS2 is holding back all the games.
Look at GTA.
The PlayStation is really holding that back.
And the Xbox is the only one that can play Doom.
And Doom is like a year old now.
So the next generation is in time, but they have to utilize
it properly.
Well, I'll just make a prediction that even though the next
generation console,
with the Xbox 360s coming out in the fall, I think it is,
the Xbox and PS2 sales, probably not the PS2 anymore,
but the Xbox game sales will outdo the Xbox 360 sales
because there's so many good games
which have like fully,
almost fully comprehended the engine
and the capabilities of the Xbox
and they'll outsell the Xbox 360 games.
Well, I'm a Nintendo guy
because Nintendo focuses more about the games
and not about that.
Anyways, we have to go to the next subject
because time is running out.
Franklin, you want to say something?
Oh yeah, I just want to say I agree with Mark
because if you look back to old games
and old 2D games where they used sprites and stuff like
that.
The thing is, they didn't have much to work on,
so they dedicated most of their time to working on gameplay
aspects.
They worked on features, they worked on pickups
that the character could play with and stuff like that.
But right now, we're just pumping out a lot of geometry
and there isn't much defining a game.
You can almost compare two games to each other.
For instance, Doom 3 and Quake 4.
I can't really say much about Quake 4
because it hasn't been released yet.
But really, what's the difference between them?
The story.
Well, the story, that's the only thing.
It's stupid.
You see, they have the engine.
They're not worrying about the graphics.
They're just working on the gameplay.
No, they should be working on the gameplay.
Yes, they're working on the gameplay,
not the graphics.
So I think a thumbs up for that.
Rather work on the gameplay than the graphics.
Oh, we'll never agree on this.
Anyways, next.
Okay, next subject.
Do you think we'll ever be able to pass the Uncanny Valley
in movies or games?
Yeah, we'll have to.
Okay, for people who don't know, the Uncanny Valley is when
you make a character
and it's looking very real, but it's so close to realism
that it looks horrible.
It looks like a zombie. It looks lifeless.
You're going fine until it's, like cartoon characters, they
're not there.
They're above the valley.
Characters that are close to being realistic, they're in
the value.
It's a horrible thing.
Like the character has no life.
But if you can pass that value, you have amazing photoreal
istic characters.
And that's what's affecting a lot of movies and games.
Well, not games because they're not close to it.
But like Polar Express suffers from that.
Yeah, it's because motion capture.
It doesn't fully, it can't fully express what an animator
can.
because sometimes you just need to exaggerate
the emotions and movements of the characters
to make it look realistic in 3D.
It's that it's too hard for animations
because we have very subtle emotions
that are really hard to capture.
That's why I'm thinking the AI would be good for that.
We still need to program the AI to realize that.
Yeah, well, that's in the future.
But they're starting with the future.
The future rocks.
Well, actually, I disagree because they use motion capture
on the Golem from Lord of the Rings.
And he looked pretty real.
Yeah, but he's not human.
He's not human.
That's the thing.
He may not be human, but he moved.
Yeah, I have to say he had a great character.
Yes, but he's not human.
So part of it was left to our imagination.
But when you're dealing with humans, it's a different story
.
Because with humans, you're expecting so much more.
But with a monster, it's all right.
Part of it goes to your imagination.
All right.
So one more thing before we wrap up this segment.
There's a new game coming out called The Movies by Lionhead
Studios.
And I think it would be very cool to use that as a tool for
pre-visualizations of short animations.
You can make the movie inside that.
