Join us on CGCast as Bryn Morrow, a 27-year-old South African artist with a background in traditional mediums, shares his insights into Vancouver Film School (VFS). Bryn discusses his journey from traditional art to digital 3D modeling, animation, and
sculpting, highlighting the rigorous yet rewarding experience of VFS. He talks about the school's intense curriculum, the importance of traditional art skills like life drawing and sculpting, and the collaborative studio environment that mirrors real
industry settings. Bryn also touches on the software used, emphasizing the shift towards Maya and ZBrush, and offers advice for aspiring 3D artists, stressing the value of critique, networking, and practical experience. With special guest Luke reinforcing
Bryn's points, this episode is packed with insider tips and inspiration for anyone looking to break into the 3D industry.
This episode is a treasure trove of insights for anyone considering a career in 3D art, offering practical advice and real-world perspectives from an insider. Tune in to learn more and get inspired.
Welcome everybody to CGCast. Today I have Bryn Morrow with
me.
He went to the Vancouver Film School and he'll be talking
about it today with us
since Nick requested that I interview somebody that went
there to see how it stacks up.
Hey Bryn, can you tell us a little bit about yourself?
Yeah, I'm 27 years old now and I'm originally from South
Africa.
And yeah, I mean, I heard about VFS quite a while ago,
actually, probably five, six years ago now.
And, you know, I come from an art background, big into my
painting and my drawing and ceramics and that side thing.
And I was like, you know, I heard about BFS and wanted to
combine it, you know, do some kind of CG stuff as well.
And, yeah, I managed to get out there and, yeah, put
together a reel.
And I'm pretty happy with the reel.
And yeah, it was a really good school.
How did you get in?
Was getting into the VFS hard?
Did you have to do anything special?
Well, you know, they require that you submit a portfolio.
And, you know, with some traditional drawing,
they like to see, obviously, life drawing skills.
And it's really sort of a postgraduate school.
so they'd expect you to either have studied at university
before
or I'd say that you just got to be able to show them
that you have a very strong traditional background.
And, you know, if you've worked, if you've done some CG
work before,
which a lot of the guys that do go to school have done,
you know, you got to show that too.
So awesome.
How's like the atmosphere there?
Is it friendly or what?
Oh, yeah.
I mean, it's very, you know, it's one year and it's
extremely intense, of course.
So, yeah, it is friendly, but, you know, you're spending
every single second at school.
Like, I'd say that I was spending probably from 9 o'clock
until 3 o'clock in the morning every day.
And then when I was doing my reel, I was like crazy, even
longer.
Like, you know, babysitting renders until, I don't know,
until six in the morning.
Whatever it takes, man, you know.
But the people are, like, awesome, you know.
It's really important that, you know, when you go to school
there, the class that you actually join,
which is kind of hard to actually, you know, you won't ever
have any control over that.
But, you know, it's really good and really important if the
students are really talented too
because you guys bounce off each other all the time.
A lot of the time you're learning stuff off of them
because they learned the stuff from the teacher
better than you did originally or whatever.
So it's very important.
Your classmates are very important.
Cool.
What was your favorite thing about the school
and what was your least favorite thing about it?
I'd say my favorite thing about the school, I suppose,
was the, you know, I'm really big into sculpting
and we had a really good sculpting teacher there.
And, you know, just I think for me, my favorite thing was,
and also life drawing, you know, they got a really tough
schedule
and then, you know, they just kind of sit you down
and you do sort of an hour or two of life drawing a day
and then sort of further up the later terms,
you'd be doing sort of sculpting.
Well, that's if you, you know, if you become a modeler,
If you go into the modeling stream, let's say, you'd be
doing sculpting.
And, you know, those classes for me was, I'd say,
the coolest thing that I enjoyed about VFS.
And also, you know, just Vancouver.
It's really nice.
You know, it's a really nice area, a nice country.
I mean, sorry, a nice city.
You know, Canada's a nice country too, but, you know, it's
a really nice city.
And it's very diverse, you know, artistically.
And that's one of the, you know, for me,
one of the favorite things about coming to this school
was the city as well. It was really good.
I'd say something about the school
that was sort of my least favorite
thing, I'd say, was probably
the hours he had to put in.
And also animation. I'm a huge animation
fan. Although,
actually, I like animation.
I like watching it, but doing it
as a little tedious me and favorite
thing.
Okay, I have Luke
with me. He's a
special guests would you like to ask something luke i was
going to say do you think you benefited
from vfs um yeah i mean totally um because i probably
wouldn't have been able to you know
put in the amount of work um at all on my own and obviously
it just benefited from the other
students man because you know the constant the constant
critiques and you know just learning to
take a critique properly and uh and you know being able to
respond to critique you know in the right
way it's very important and uh it just i'd totally think
that you know obviously if it wasn't for vfs
you know i wouldn't have landed the job that i have and um
yeah i'm really stoked that you know
vfs just yeah i totally benefited i mean there's obviously
a lot of schools out there as well
um but you know this is an immersion program so you know it
's like a three-year course or whatever
crammed into one year and you know and they say it's like
that you have to really work hard and uh
and that, you know, working really hard like that
and suddenly being put into a studio environment
kind of sets you up for the industry
and what it's really like, you know,
and that's really important
because obviously, you know,
the fact that it's only a year as well is good
because, you know, software is constantly changing
and there's always new software coming out.
Yeah, I know, Toby, you know,
bouncing off the students and that was really important
and the fact that it's an immersion program
and they throw you into a studio environment
and it really sets you up for going into a studio
and just understanding how it works
and the fact that you've put in so many hours before.
There's nothing they can throw at you now
that's just going to be a shock to you as far as work
and a load of work is concerned.
Can you explain what you mean by a studio environment?
Can you give an example?
I'd say that, like, perhaps we had sort of group
assignments in that,
sort of in the third term where, you know, we've got an art
director
that would sort of, you know, give us the project
and we'd have to split ourselves into, you know, different
groups
where, you know, one of us would be doing the texturing,
one would be the modeling, one would do the animation,
and then obviously camera moves and, you know,
just put you into sort of an environment where you have to,
you know,
you have to actually produce this short or whatever it is
that you're actually doing.
At the same time, you'd have sort of either the customer
or we would have sort of like the teacher that would
actually be, you know,
acting like the customer and saying, you know, I want to
change this,
I want to change that, you know, and, you know, that's kind
of how,
because he was actually working for Mainframe at the time
and kind of put us into like a mock situation,
which is really good.
And obviously when I say studio environment,
I was just saying that you're sitting in front of a
computer, I guess,
and the layout is very studio-esque.
But that depends, obviously, because, I mean,
a lot of companies like to set it out in sort of a function
way of design.
You know, I really want to sort of facilitate a person's
artistic flare
or whatever it's like.
You know, that's what I mean, I guess.
Yeah, that sounds like very cool.
That sounds very cool.
Can you tell us...
So, would you say that it built your team building skills
up
as well as anything else that you learned while you were
there?
Oh, completely, completely.
I mean, you know, obviously you're producing a reel
that is, you know, it's your own reel,
so it's not a group reel.
But you still do, you know, group assignments,
which you can put in, say, for instance, you're going for a
job or whatever in your resume,
and you can still talk about group assignments and you can
give reference to them
and also have references as well that can identify how you
did as a group within a group
and your role in the group and how you responded.
I think that's really important.
Obviously, the reel that you produce is, like I said, it's
your own reel,
And it also shows your own dedication to your own work.
But, you know, the fact that you're working, you know, even
though it is, like I said, your own reel,
everybody that you're working with and they're working on
their own reels,
everybody's putting in and everybody's putting into your
stuff, you're putting into their stuff.
And, yeah, definitely if it wasn't for them, I wouldn't say
that I wouldn't have produced the reel that I did.
So, yeah, I think it's very important.
Did you still retain contact with some of the guys you met
at the Vancouver Film School?
Oh, yeah.
I mean, the thing is, it's very international, right?
So, you know, my class, I had guys from Spain, Portugal.
There's actually quite a few Canadians.
And apparently, from what I heard, there's not many
Canadians that are actually in the classes.
But there were quite a few in my class.
So there was guys from Taiwan, China, I guess me from South
Africa, from the States.
Those are guys from the States, all different parts of the
States, from Mexico.
And obviously they had to leave.
You know, a lot of them, they didn't have extended visas or
anything like that.
So they left.
But, you know, we still keep in contact on MSN and there's
our friends through accounts on the internet.
In fact, we've actually got our graduation Friday.
And not everybody's always going to be able to come
because a lot of people have gone back to their countries.
But a lot of guys wanted to find work out here.
So, you know, there's still quite a few of us out here
and we still hang out and, you know, work on, you know,
because we still, I mean, I'm still doing work, you know,
on my own stuff and recently now with other companies.
And, you know, it's good to get some feedback as well
on your own personal work.
And, yeah, we all stick together.
It's just really cool.
You know, you definitely built up a bunch of friends
that you can definitely see in the industry in the future
and, you know, some really good contacts there.
That's pretty good.
It's all about social network.
Yeah, totally, man.
I mean, I guess, I mean, I'm not too familiar with the
industry
because I haven't worked in the industry.
I'm not going to say that I have,
but from what we've, you know, been drumming into our heads
all the time,
It's all about building a network of people that you know
because six or seven of the guys in my class already have
gotten jobs
and are already working in the industry.
Fortunately, I'm also one of them now.
And what that does is it builds up your network.
And you know somebody in the studio and he knows you.
And it's all word of mouth.
It becomes word of mouth at the end of the day.
I mean, it's hard to break in, but once you get in,
and as long as you know lots of people, it all works out.
That's cool.
Can you tell us what kind of software they use at the
school,
or do you get to choose your own, or are you limited to one
?
Well, VFS, when I started and when I graduated,
was traditionally XSI-based.
We used XSI, or Softimage XSI, which is really cool for
modeling.
And actually, animation isn't too bad either,
but, you know, and I also use ZBrush towards the end.
We've got a few ZBrush licenses.
So they don't sort of tie you down to a specific software.
I mean, they teach you XSI so that you know XSI
really, really well.
But we also had Maya classes as well.
But from what I've heard, and in fact, I can definitely say
that they've become,
it's turned into a Maya school now.
So everything is they're going to be teaching in Maya and Z
at NuSet
because they're going to be doing motions older.
And, you know, because just for the animation side of
things,
and if you're, you know, key modeler, then, you know,
when you get to, say, term four,
they're going to give you extensive knowledge on XSI
as well
and on Maya as far as modeling is concerned
because, you know, it doesn't necessarily matter
and which program you actually learn modeling in,
or animation really, but they're really mixing it up,
and I think it's going to become more of a Maya house, Maya
school.
So there's no love for 3D Max?
In fact, there's a few guys using 3D Studio Max now,
but that's just their own choice,
and they came to the school with that kind of background,
and they still learn to XSI,
and they want to just stick with Studio Max.
But it was never a Studio Max house.
But I guess that company has taken over Maya or whatever.
So I guess it's going to become something more like that.
But yeah, not when I was there.
It was never much of a Studio Max house.
But it's a cool software.
It's really cool.
I've used it.
Which one do you prefer personally?
Personally, I would say that I prefer XSI
only because I know it pretty well.
But for modeling, that is.
If I was an animator, we study animation as well,
I think I'd probably go with Maya,
just because of the way you can set keyframes.
I just liked Maya for that type of thing,
even though it wasn't really good at animation,
or I just didn't pursue it.
But I've been modeling in Maya recently,
and it just seems to take more steps to do what you want to
do.
Whereas in XSI, it's a lot more user-friendly, I'd say.
a lot more intuitive to, yeah,
it just seems to be a lot easier to use.
Although when the meshes get much higher,
it's kind of nicer to use Meyer, actually.
It's pretty cool.
Have you modeled in Max?
Because I want to know how Max compares to XSI.
No, unfortunately.
But I can say from hearing from other people
that as far as modeling is concerned,
It's better than Maya in modeling terms,
but it doesn't quite touch X.
It's close.
It's got so, you see, the thing is it's got so,
you know, it's been around so long,
and it's got all the cool tools,
but it just seems to be too many.
It hasn't been set, laid out.
It's a bit easier to use,
so you have to research through your stuff.
But they're there.
You know, the tools are there.
That's cool.
This is what I've heard.
I want to try out XSI.
I'll download the demo.
Oh, yeah, man.
It's for XSI 5.
I've been working with XSI 5, and wow, it's just so easy.
I mean, I can totally model something, like, in half the
time in XSI.
Then I can say Maya.
But, you know, I just go back and forth.
I'll do a little bit of stuff in, say, XSI, you know, the
load proxy stages,
and then I kind of bring it into Maya when it gets heavier
and use some of the tools that Maya's got.
But I guess, you know, when you work for a company and, you
know,
they've got proprietary stuff, which, you know, their TDs
are built in,
you know, certain, you know, plugins for Maya,
which can do this,
just kind of what the industry is like anyways.
What are your goals in life?
What do you want to,
do you want to work at like Pixar?
Do you want to start your own studio or what?
Okay, yeah.
I mean, I'm going to be flying up
sort of in the San Diego.
I'm going to be working for Pendulum Studios.
And they kind of do game cinematics
and 3D shorts.
and some adverts and that type of thing.
Maybe she visual effects shots for TV stuff.
So my current goals are to do the best work I can do for
them.
Unfortunately, they're giving me some really good
opportunities there.
I'm really interested in sculpting as well.
I've been doing quite a bit of sculpting there.
I really enjoy that, so I obviously want to pursue that
still
and keep sculpting.
And obviously ZBrush is amazing.
I love working with the program too.
And fortunately, our pipeline uses a lot of ZBrush.
So I guess I wouldn't say I want to start my own production
company at all.
But yeah, I'd like to see exactly how it runs and where I'd
like to fit in.
I really enjoy texturing.
Texturing is another huge part of it for me.
Unfortunately, I enjoy all three of those things.
I start modeling, I enjoy modeling,
and then I can take a break and texture.
And then I really get into the texture
and take another break, start modeling.
And that's just totally how I like it.
It's cool that I can do both things for a company.
That's excellent.
You said you like to sculpt.
Do you think sculpting has helped you with your modeling?
Has it influenced it?
Totally, totally.
I think that, you know, it's pretty clear that we're kind
of, you know,
designed the classes around sort of, you know, modeling.
Say, for instance, where we've been given a human body to
start modeling,
then we'll be kind of sculpting, you know, a body at the
same time maybe
or sculpting a head.
And I just think that you realize how easy it is to just
sculpt.
You can just put something in a place that you want to put
it.
And then when you're in 3D, you're kind of learning how to
put it where you want to put it.
But it's basically the same.
I think for me, sculpting is a little different because, I
don't know, I just really like working with my hands as
well.
But I think realizing something in 3D is very important.
If you can realize that, you know, in a sculpture, you're
ready for your dot D.
And then from there to the computer, it's just a lot easier
.
A heck of a lot easier.
So it is one thing to kind of decipher a 2D drawing,
try and work out what the 3D side of things is going to be.
It's definitely way better, I'd say, if you could sculpt it
first.
So do you recommend that modelers or people interested in 3
D take sculpting class?
Totally, man. Totally.
Especially for modelers, I'd say.
I mean, you know, animators is not like the biggest.
Well, it depends, you know, a lot of animated,
a lot of guys in my class that did animation reels,
they really, really enjoyed Sculpting too.
And their models were excellent, you know,
because XSI definitely facilitates a modeler, you know
,
because it's, like I said, it's easy to use for modeling.
So, you know, everybody's models were really good, you know
, as it was.
I mean, whether you take it to a different level is up to
you,
but I definitely think sculpting is very important.
And it always will be, I think,
because just, you know, getting someone's head around,
you know, it's one thing to go,
okay, well, you're actually making it in 3D on a computer.
But I think, you know, if you see yourself making it,
like sculpting it, you know,
you understand what goes into what you're really doing
with the different angles that you can look at something
from,
from the top, from the side, from the tree,
you know, all those different angles.
And you realize that you can do that in the computer too.
And, you know, it's kind of, it works hand in hand.
And if you're doing sculpting at the same time as modeling,
it really, really helps.
I think I'll go buy some clay when I have some free time.
Yeah, get yourself some sculpty, super sculpty.
Okay, cool.
Do you know any resources on the net for sculpting?
You know, CG Talk has got like a really nice sort of forum
for sculpting there as well.
But I think that, you know, Zbrush Central,
They've got a lot of traditional sculpting on there as well
where people are putting up sculptures
and trying to get some good feedback.
Fortunately, I've got a friend out here
who's actually a teacher at VFS as well, Gideon Hay,
and he does so much stuff.
He's really good, and fortunately, he's always willing to
help out.
Even if you've left the school,
you can always keep in touch with the teachers
and find out what they're doing
and just ask some questions and get some critiques on your
work.
For me, I think it's a very small kind of network for
sculptors, I'd say, in Vancouver.
And if you know the right people, you can definitely expand
your knowledge.
Do you have any tips for people who are interested in
breaking into the 3D industry?
Well, I'd say that for me, it's very important to have gone
to a 3D school.
because you really understand what it takes.
And just working with other people that are really, really
talented as well
just kind of opens your eyes to different possibilities.
And just having your work critiqued is also really
important.
I think that if someone wants to go into the industry,
they need to be aware of the fact that there's guys out
there
that are really good.
You really need to show your work to a lot of people
and get some really good feedback to be able to take it,
for one.
Some people just can't take criticism,
but also that's what the industry is all about.
It's not just about being an artist.
It's also about doing stuff.
A client wants to eat.
I think definitely going to a 3D school like VFS helped me.
I think if you want to break into the industry,
and, you know, going to a 3D school is really, really
important.
And obviously, you know, looking up all the different
schools
that there are out there and looking at the reels
and the quality of work that comes out of the schools
and then, you know, making that decision on your own as
well.
But definitely going to a 3D school is very, very important
, I'd say.
And, you know, life drawing is important and sculpting is
very important,
especially for modelers.
But if you want to get into the 3D industry, it's growing
like crazy.
You know, like out here now, you know, all this, you know,
the next-gen games and the games industry is just getting
huge.
So, you know, there's a lot of jobs out there,
and it's a really lucrative business,
and they're looking for talented people.
So, you know, I just get that sort of little bit of
background
in the school.
I don't specifically think that it's really important to go
to a university, I'd say.
But I think to have a really good traditional background is
really important for any school you go to in 3D.
And that definitely helps out.
So, yeah, I mean, if you do go to a university first, that
's great.
You learn finance skills, that's awesome.
But also, you know, the 3D, the 3D school is the most
important, I think.
Well, for me.
That's fair enough.
Luke, do you have any questions?
Yeah, I was going to say, you mentioned levels of quality
there.
When you went to VFS, I can't remember what it was.
I think it was VFS.
But did you notice varying the range of quality?
Were there many people that were the best at the game,
people that were the worst?
Well, I think the range in my class was where we were very
fortunate.
Everybody was extremely, extremely talented,
but there were some guys that were a lot more technically
talented
that knew sort of XSI and Maya
and all the different software packages, you know,
before we did or before I did.
And then obviously there were some guys that were just
awesome artists
and sort of, you know, they come from 2D backgrounds
and, you know, and all these people bring all this
information,
all this experience into the pot and, you know, you just
take from it
and you know you give what you can give too you know some
people are really good with color and
unfortunately I'm that's one of my strengths is you know
texturing color and painting and
inside I think so you know I think that some just having
really really talented people in your
definitely helps and I think in VFS especially the last
three batches they've been really really
talented so the work you know the quality of the reels have
definitely been up there you know
especially with the modeling the modeling noise is really
good at the fs but uh the animation side
of things you know the fs definitely push for the story you
know and story is very important
um because obviously a lot of the stuff goes to flung
festivals and that as well so
you know uh the animation obviously is important too but
you know they don't like a student just
to sort of do a bunch of animation exercises doing a
character picking something up or a
character doing this a character jumping character walk
cycle you know i'd say that for them stories
really important as well so to have a nice story that you
can submit to a film festival or something
as a school um once as well you know and uh and for a
student that's good for a student but it
doesn't necessarily mean that you're going to get a job
because you know a lot of companies just want
to see specific animations that you can do you know so i
think um uh you know uh definitely the
quality of work uh i mean i don't mean to strafe the topic
but definitely quality of work and
students being extremely like in my class i was really
lucky i mean from what i've heard my class
was you know one of the one of the most talented classes
and we were really lucky because we were
bouncing off each other and there was a lot of competition
there sort of healthy competition too
you know and then obviously the group the group stuff
really pulled us together and by the end
of it you know everybody's just pulling in and just uh that
's a really good experience yeah
that's awesome
any more questions Luke?
yeah well if someone was
to be an aspiring learner
to learn to do 3D
what would you recommend they did to help them learn?
how did you learn or
major to get into 3D?
well I mean
before I went to the school
I touched on
sort of Maya, I did a
model a little bit in Maya but I really hadn't
done that much because you know
the techniques that they teach you in school is a
completely
different to what I was trying to do at home.
I had no idea already.
I think what's important is if you can
draw and you can actually
put to the table,
if you can express your ideas on paper,
at least,
they really push that. You need to be able to express
your ideas on paper.
If you can't express your ideas quickly
on paper, then it's kind of
their industry. It's not
that easy to understand, but then obviously
3D is taking over
that, I'd say.
but I think if you wanted to get better at 3D
before you go to say a school like VFS
I think
you know if you try to do a bit of
box modeling you know that's
really good and just kind of
understanding you know how a 3D
program really works
I'll ask you one more question
and that should be about it
can you tell us what inspires you?
I'd say what inspires me
is just seeing some really awesome
stuff on TV you know not in TV
but in movies you know like
like recently watching Batman and Star Wars 3 and the new
Harry Potter,
just seeing some awesome stuff and what people are doing.
And also on CG Talk, there's really, really inspiring stuff
out there.
People's work inspires me to actually get better and do
more work and create more work.
I think that's definitely inspiring for me.
Cool. Would you like to...
Okay, Luke?
I was going to say, on the subject of movies and films,
do you ever go to the cinema and look at something that's
done in 3D
and think what could be done better on it
and analyze it in a 3D way instead of sitting down and
watching the film?
Totally.
I mean, after being at VFS, that's all you do.
And it's hard to enjoy movies anymore.
But I don't know.
Sometimes my brain just kind of becomes a big marshmallow
and I just suck it all in.
I don't even care anymore.
If I get caught up in the world, I get caught up in the
world.
But I see these things and I'm trying to let them annoy me
because there's a lot of things that you can see that just
don't look real,
which just don't look good, just look so CG.
And when I see those types of things, it does break the
illusion.
And it happens a lot because when you learn about the
techniques
of how certain things are done, you can just see that they
use this technique
and they got it wrong or whatever.
And yeah, I think that for me now happens all the time, you
know.
But for the new stuff, you know, this new Harry Potter,
I was like blown away because it was done so well.
I think the visual effects in that was really good.
And obviously you can nitpick things, but I really think
that, you know,
the way it's going now and I'm just looking forward to Narn
ia
and, you know, just the CG stuff that's coming out now is
just amazing, you know.
So, yeah, it's easy to nitpick and you can see problems.
There's always problems, but I think it's getting really
close now.
It's pretty exciting.
Would you like to plug your website or any websites at all?
My website, bryn3d.com.
Yeah, www.bryn3d.com.
Yeah, 3D.com.
I've actually just recently updated it and turned it into a
website,
but it's very bare right now
and there's a few things that aren't working
but I'm definitely working on it.
I don't really come from sort of a web page design thing
but I made it myself.
But yeah, that's about it, I'd say.
CG Talks also, Brennan.
CG supports us a lot.
I like it.
I mean, I'm just checking CG Talk out every day.
That and also ZBrush Central.
Some really cool stuff on there too.
really good at, you know, tutorials and that.
Well, thank you for doing the interview with us.
Well, thank you, Olivier.
Yeah, I'm honored.
I'm the one that's honored.
And thank you too, Luke, for hanging around too.
I would like to say sorry for the interference right now
because Bryn's microphone is not being nice.
And Skype was not being nice either today.
So we'll see.
All right.
Thanks, everybody, and good night.
All right.
Later.
